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  #1  
Old 4th February 2009, 11:40 AM
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Default Tata Capital - Non Convertible Debentures?



Hi Guys,

I am looking for long term investment options(5years+) which are relatively secure than Equity shares. I was considering investing some govt bonds or NSS etc.

Today i came across Tata Capitals NCD issue. Is this is good investment instrument for my requirement? Please help.

Thank you
-Srini
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  #2  
Old 4th February 2009, 02:11 PM
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If you don't mind holding the debentures for 5 years, then it is a decent investment.

Here is a nice comparison between the NCD offer by Tata Capital and Fixed Deposits by Tata Motors.

I think the allotment will be on "first come, first served" basis.

If you want to apply, apply as soon as possible.
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  #3  
Old 4th February 2009, 04:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alchemist View Post
If you don't mind holding the debentures for 5 years, then it is a decent investment.

Here is a nice comparison between the NCD offer by Tata Capital and Fixed Deposits by Tata Motors.

I think the allotment will be on "first come, first served" basis.

If you want to apply, apply as soon as possible.
Where can I get the Full information about this?

And Where can I apply for this?
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  #4  
Old 4th February 2009, 06:22 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muralisankars View Post
Where can I get the Full information about this?

And Where can I apply for this?
The prospectus is available at Tata Capital's site. (pdf file).

Ask your stock broker if he has the forms.

ICICI Securities, Citi Group, DSP Merrill Lynch are the lead managers.

Karvy is the registrar.

If your broker doesn't have the forms, you will surely get them at Karvy's office or from any of the lead managers.

The forms are also available at Tata Capital's offices.

ICICI Bank, HDFC Bank and ING Vysya are bankers to the issue. The prospectus says the forms are also available with the bankers. If you have any of these banks in your neighbourhood, then ask them too.
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  #5  
Old 7th February 2009, 08:26 PM
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http://content.icicidirect.com/mailimages/TATA1.htm

Why is put and call option mentioned on this issue and what does it means?
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  #6  
Old 7th February 2009, 10:08 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by man4urheart View Post
http://content.icicidirect.com/mailimages/TATA1.htm

Why is put and call option mentioned on this issue and what does it means?
Both the bond-holder and the bond-issuer have the right to prematurely redeem the bond at a predetermined rate and after a predetermined term but before the actual maturity.

Issuers do this if they feel the interest rates may fall sometime after the bond is issued and so keep an "escape clause" in the form of a call option.

For a more professional explanation, see this.

but here's a small quote:
Quote:
The Double Life

Callable bonds have two potential life spans, one ending at the original maturity date and the other at the "callable date".

At the callable date, the issuer may "recall" the bonds from its investors. This simply means the issuer retires (or pays off) the bond by returning the investors' money. Whether or not this occurs is a factor of the interest rate environment.

Last edited by vasa1 : 7th February 2009 at 10:12 PM.
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  #7  
Old 9th February 2009, 11:14 PM
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Default Multiple applications using single demat account for Tata Capital NCDs

Hi All,

Can i have multiple applications for my demat account for this unlike equity IPOs where only single application is allowed for 1 pan & demat.

Please let me know i have already applied once online thru Sharekhan & i might have an opportunity to invest more before Feb 24th.

Thanks in advance,
Hiren
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  #8  
Old 10th February 2009, 06:10 AM
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Alchemist, what, in your opinion, is the chance of picking up the NCD at a discount after listing?

I'm asking because I don't really want to invest in NCDs at the moment, but if some "event" occurs and it goes cheap???
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  #9  
Old 10th February 2009, 07:47 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiren View Post
Hi All,

Can i have multiple applications for my demat account for this unlike equity IPOs where only single application is allowed for 1 pan & demat.

Please let me know i have already applied once online thru Sharekhan & i might have an opportunity to invest more before Feb 24th.

Thanks in advance,
Hiren
Yes, you can submit as many applications as you want.

See page 135 of the Prospectus of the Public Offering of Non Convertible Debentures by Tata Capital Limited.

Quote:
B. Additional Applications
An applicant is allowed to make one or more applications for the NCDs for the same or other options. Such
applications will not be deemed as multiple applications and shall not be rejected.
==============================

Quote:
Originally Posted by vasa1 View Post
Alchemist, what, in your opinion, is the chance of picking up the NCD at a discount after listing?

I'm asking because I don't really want to invest in NCDs at the moment, but if some "event" occurs and it goes cheap???
Not much of a chance.

This is not an equity offering and the price of the debentures will move in a very narrow band.
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  #10  
Old 16th February 2009, 12:43 PM
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Hi,

What is the difference between FD and NCD?

From the above links, NCD also gives the fixed interest.

Is there any risk involved? I mean is it possible that the stated 76% return (cumulative) after 5 years could be less?

Thanks.
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  #11  
Old 16th February 2009, 05:02 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by paran View Post
Hi,

What is the difference between FD and NCD?

From the above links, NCD also gives the fixed interest.

Is there any risk involved? I mean is it possible that the stated 76% return (cumulative) after 5 years could be less?

Thanks.
The biggest difference is that you can sell the debenture any time you want.

You can't sell your fixed deposit - you have to break it.

All kind of investments carry a risk.

Government bonds carry the least risk as government can always print money....

Fixed deposits with PSU banks are almost as good as government bonds because even if the bank collapses, government will repay the depositors for political reasons.

In this case, if Tata Capital faces financial problems, it may delay repayment or may even default.

The company claims that the debentures are secured, but I am not sure what exactly are these debentures secured against.
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  #12  
Old 16th February 2009, 05:41 PM
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Here is what the prospectus says about the debentures being secured:

Quote:
Securities on our NCDs rank pari passu with our Company’s secured indebtedness.

Substantially all of our Company’s current assets represented by finance receivables are being used to secure our Company’s debt. As at December 31, 2008 our Company’s secured debt was Rs. 451,937 lakhs. Securities on our NCDs will rank pari passu with any of our Company’s secured obligations with respect to the assets that secure such obligations. The terms of the NCDs do not prevent our Company from incurring additional debt. In addition, the NCDs will rank pari passu to the existing and future indebtedness and other secured liabilities and obligations of our Company.
Thus, the secured debentures are as secure as the receivables of the company.

There is no limit to how much debt the company can take against these receivables.
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  #13  
Old 16th February 2009, 07:52 PM
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Exclamation Tata Capital NCD Multiple Applications

Quote:
Originally Posted by Alchemist View Post
Yes, you can submit as many applications as you want.

See page 135 of the Prospectus of the Public Offering of Non Convertible Debentures by Tata Capital Limited.

==============================



Not much of a chance.

This is not an equity offering and the price of the debentures will move in a very narrow band.
Hi!

My sister is having online trading demat account with ICICI Bank. Day before she made applicaiton for 20 NCDs. Today she wanted to have futher 25 NCDs So she applied for second time But ICICI rejected her applications saying that One Application for One Demat Account. I have gone thru the Prospectus Page No 135 which concurs your opinion.

It seems that ICICI Bank have taken their own decision which goes against Prospectus issued by Tata Capital. Can someone enlight on this issue? Is it something wrong with ICICI online system? Does anyone have such experience? Or our interpretation of Prospectus is incorrect?
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  #14  
Old 16th February 2009, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by ramgpp View Post
It seems that ICICI Bank have taken their own decision which goes against Prospectus issued by Tata Capital.
Exactly.

ICICIDirect.com.

If you want to make a second application, you will have to submit a physical application or use some other online service.

Quote:
Only one application per Trading account will be accepted while investing through www.icicidirect.com.
Source.
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  #15  
Old 27th February 2009, 04:28 PM
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When is the allotment date????
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  #16  
Old 27th February 2009, 05:13 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muralisankars View Post
When is the allotment date????
The allotment should happen in around 2 weeks.

Tata Capital's site mentions a toll free number - 1800 209 6060.

You may call them up for your queries...
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  #17  
Old 27th February 2009, 11:16 PM
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I think this is best avoided.

http://blog.investraction.com/2009/0...struction.html

A good read ...what a mess TATA is .....
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  #18  
Old 6th March 2009, 12:00 PM
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Default When is the allotment date for Tata Capital NCD?

How we know the allotment date, can we get any physical letter/doc?
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  #19  
Old 6th March 2009, 03:41 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rama131079 View Post
How we know the allotment date, can we get any physical letter/doc?
I am not sure, but my guess is that the company will send an intimation to everyone.....just like in the case of IPO's.
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Old 13th March 2009, 10:50 AM
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This Got Credited to my Demat Account.....

Quote:
The Company shall pay interest on application money on the amount allotted, subject to deduction of income tax under
the provisions of the Income Tax Act, 1961, or any other statutory modification or re-enactment thereof, as applicable, if
it exceeds the prescribed limit of 5000/- in any financial year to any investor from the date of realization of the cheque(s)/
demand draft(s) or 5 (five) days from the date of application whichever is later upto one day prior to the Deemed Date of
Allotment, at the rate of 8% per annum.
But I didn't get any amount for this quoted Interest in my Bank Account...

And Which Exchange It get Listed & Traded?

Last edited by muralisankars : 13th March 2009 at 10:55 AM.
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  #21  
Old 13th March 2009, 05:42 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muralisankars View Post
This Got Credited to my Demat Account.....

But I didn't get any amount for this quoted Interest in my Bank Account...

And Which Exchange It get Listed & Traded?
The interest will only be paid to those who get allotment.

Quote:
The Company shall pay interest on application money on the amount allotted
The company can't pay interest to everyone who applied.

The interest can only be paid once the allotment is finalized.

The debentures will be listed on both NSE and BSE.
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  #22  
Old 13th March 2009, 10:09 PM
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I got the allotment.... That's why I am asking for that....

In my Demat That NCD is there.... But in my Account no amount...
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  #23  
Old 14th March 2009, 10:16 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by muralisankars View Post
I got the allotment.... That's why I am asking for that....

In my Demat That NCD is there.... But in my Account no amount...
does your interest exceed Rs 500?

from the offer document (Tata Capital Non-Convertible Dentures):

Quote:
However, in case interest on application money is less than or equal to Rs. 500/-, than the same would be paid along with the first interest payment to the sole / first applicant.
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  #24  
Old 14th March 2009, 11:31 PM
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Default where can i check my allotment status

hi alchemist,

where are can i check the allotment status for TCL NCD? I haven't got anything in my demat & i had applied in the first week of the opening.

Thanks,
Hiren
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  #25  
Old 15th March 2009, 09:27 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by hiren View Post
where are can i check the allotment status for TCL NCD? I haven't got anything in my demat & i had applied in the first week of the opening.
The allotment status was available at Karvy's site, but the database has crashed now.

Tata Capital Non-Convertible Debentures - Allotment Status.
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Old 16th March 2009, 09:49 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alchemist View Post
does your interest exceed Rs 500?

from the offer document (Tata Capital Non-Convertible Dentures):
I think, Interest doesn't exceed 500...

I applied on 5th Feb for the amount Rs.10000/-. So, I don't think I would get above Rs.500/-.

I have applied for Cumulative thing....

Then I will get the amount on next month or End of the NCD????
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  #27  
Old 17th March 2009, 11:04 AM
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Question Allotment Document

Hi Muralisankars,

Did you receive any physical letter or document regarding this NCD allotment?

Thanks
Ramki
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  #28  
Old 17th March 2009, 02:45 PM
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I am also allotted for 20K. Till now i have not received any letter/email from their side. Checked online and 1000 are present at rate of 20.
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  #29  
Old 17th March 2009, 02:57 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by rama131079 View Post
Hi Muralisankars,

Did you receive any physical letter or document regarding this NCD allotment?

Thanks
Ramki
I don't know about any Physical Letter .... I have to check with my Communication Address which is my Native Address....

But I am sure I didn't get any E-mail .....
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Old 18th March 2009, 01:39 PM
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Default Thanks Murlai for repsonse

My communication address got changed, yesterday only i have submitted the address change request to DP. I had checked the Demat Account, allotment of 1 monthly NCD got credited & today i received a mail from karvy confirming the same.

Thanks
Ramki
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  #31  
Old 18th March 2009, 03:31 PM
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Trading has also started on these NCD.
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  #32  
Old 6th August 2009, 08:31 AM
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What is the script code for Tata Capital NCD on NSE? I assume it is already listed on NSE

Can we buy online now?
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  #33  
Old 6th August 2009, 09:36 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Buzz View Post
What is the script code for Tata Capital NCD on NSE? I assume it is already listed on NSE

Can we buy online now?
here:

http://nseindia.com/marketinfo/equit...ag=0&series=N1

because of the higher interest, the NCD's are now trading at a premium to the issue price.
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  #34  
Old 4th September 2009, 12:29 AM
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Just checked the qoutes of all the series

Following are the quotes
N1 : 109000
N2 : 1121
N3 : 1126
N4 : 1130

N2 is quarterly interest payment. So it means those you had applied for N2, would have got interest till June(Approx 4 month since 5th March). Those who had applied for N1 must have got around 6 months interest.

In that comparison N2 and N1 are very highly overpriced in comparison to N3 and N4. Interest for these 4 months for N2 comes out to be Rs. 35-40. So N4 should ideally be atleast 35-40 rupees higher than N2.

Both the series have maturity of 5 years.

As per my understanding N4 is better than N2 because
- N4 is giving higher interest
- In N4, my interest will also invested, so I can earn 12% interest on interest.

I dont know if the second point is taken as negative by the market. Even if it is, is it so negative.

Any reasons for this much difference?
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  #35  
Old 12th October 2009, 11:57 AM
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Default Can i sell the TATACAP NCD (N1 -monthly interest option)

I have one unit of TATACAP NCD N1, is it possible to sell on market before completion of 3/5 maturity period?
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  #36  
Old 12th October 2009, 12:25 PM
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Originally Posted by rama131079 View Post
I have one unit of TATACAP NCD N1, is it possible to sell on market before completion of 3/5 maturity period?
Yes of-course.

You can buy / sell it anytime before maturity!
The price is determined by demand and supply same as you see in case of shares.

Last edited by ashish_jain11 : 12th October 2009 at 12:29 PM.
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  #37  
Old 11th November 2009, 11:10 AM
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Default Thanks ashish for the information

currently i am in need of money, so it is useful if i can sell.
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  #38  
Old 11th November 2009, 06:20 PM
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Originally Posted by rama131079 View Post
currently i am in need of money, so it is useful if i can sell.
if you need the cash, you can sell.

don't give a "market sell" order in the morning.

these NCD's aren't very liquid.
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  #39  
Old 17th January 2010, 01:35 PM
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interest for Annual N3 Series NCD's will be paid on March 1,2010...
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Old 10th February 2012, 01:50 PM
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Tata Capital NCD may lower rates soon- livemint.com
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