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  #1  
Old 7th February 2012, 11:18 AM
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Default Can a Trader Know Buyer's Details?



Well today just for learning purpose. I have day traded sks logistics.

I know nothing about its fundamentals anything just day trading.

I am trading with 3500 rupees on this stock and might book loss.

I am considering extreme condition for my brokerage and hence will be including dp charges too though it won't apply.

The stock was trading at 10.56 around 9% down and was just about its circuit limit of 10.45.

I went to bseindia to see the buy and sell bid price.

There was around 3000 share buy request in total and around 900 shares sell order.

I thought since more buyers I can exit the stock even at minor loss.

Then I checked shareholding pattern and around 60% looks with promoters. So again chances on manipulation looks very less.

I saw all sell orders above 12.05. And buy at 10.80.

I placed a buy order at 10.80 for 300 shares.

Bse doesn't update quickly. So I opened moneycontrol tab to see bid price and offer price quickly as soon as I place the order.

Now as soon as my order was seen in bid price. Another order of 10.81 for 1 share was placed .I changed my price to 10.85( since hdfc doesn't allow tick size less than 5). Again some order of 1 paise more of 10 or 25 shares are placed.

It went up to 11.40.

Then I saw the charts again.Again the cheapest sell price was 12.05. And I placed an order at 11.50. And suddenly I see 169 shares getting traded. I reduce my buy price to 11. And suddenly a big order is placed for 1000 shares at 11.45.

It looks to entice me then some biggie interested in getting my stock or I place again an order of 11.5 .

I have a feeling that the trader is placing orders of 12.05 from one account for sell. On contrary just to entice buyer place a maximum bid order for 1-2 shares at price more than 1 paisa. As soon as he gets his desire price say 11.5, he cancels his sell at 12.05 and also cancel 11.51 bid price and does a sell at 11.50.

As soon as I refuse to buy at 11.5 and reduce to 11, the trader decided to entice me that big chap is ready to buy at 11.45 1000 shares. And more will come at higher price. So again I place a bid price of 11.5 and again he cancels 11.45 order and sell his stock at 11.5 to me.

I wanted to know.

1:: What I am saying is that possible?

2::: Does a trader know is trying to buy stock or from which broker house?

Last edited by magnet : 7th February 2012 at 11:27 AM.
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  #2  
Old 7th February 2012, 01:26 PM
Sachin Asher
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnet View Post
1:: What I am saying is that possible?

2::: Does a trader know is trying to buy stock or from which broker house?
While trading via exchanges it is not possible to know the details of buyers/sellers.

As for your first question, it is not just possible, but also highly probable that the person with whom you were competing for buying and the person who sold you the shares is one and the same.

It makes no sense competing with tiny orders. Usually people who place such small orders are not serious about their orders and are just trying to distort/fool the market.
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  #3  
Old 7th February 2012, 02:22 PM
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Few questions:
1. Why do you want to day trade a stock where the bid-ask spread is 10% ?!?
2. Why do you want to trade in Rs.10 stocks that regularly move up / down circuits, especially when you are not the operator nor know for a mile out anyone who is. Try Tata Motors sometimes.
3. How do you expect to trade (or scalp) looking at an order book on the BSE website when even "aam junta" has access to live order books on dedicated platforms?
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  #4  
Old 7th February 2012, 03:19 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainman View Post
Few questions:
1. Why do you want to day trade a stock where the bid-ask spread is 10% ?!?

I am a noob I don't know much about trading.It was 1st attempt.I just looked at the counter and went for it. That's it.Plan was not to carry the stock.

2. Why do you want to trade in Rs.10 stocks that regularly move up / down circuits, especially when you are not the operator nor know for a mile out anyone who is. Try Tata Motors sometimes.
Well you are right.I understood it now.Even getting the stock on delivery won't be a headache.I was planning Pantaloon earlier when it was at 178 but since amount was less 3500. I thought buy price will go around 180+. But that would had work as it ended above 190.

3. How do you expect to trade (or scalp) looking at an order book on the BSE website when even "aam junta" has access to live order books on dedicated platforms

My broker is hdfc and i don't get any platform via him.I was just seeing the market depth on bseindia to analyze what's the trend.Later i realize it some trader who is manipulating by keeping both bids buy and sell.One always learn with experience.
Anyways I cancelled the order mid-way when i got 169 stocks.

I place a sell order at 12.05 but that hdfc screwed up showing internal transit status.But anyways price never went high.It's not a big position i'll sell at 12.05 or will exit at 8.5 stop loss with loss in hand.

I just try to learn myself.I guess I need to get a good broker first then try with 25000 amount and with some advice from here and see how good I am.
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  #5  
Old 7th February 2012, 07:04 PM
Sachin Asher
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnet View Post
I just try to learn myself.I guess I need to get a good broker first then try with 25000 amount and with some advice from here and see how good I am.
If you want to trade seriously, you will need a "trading terminal".

Browser-based trading applications are usually slow.

If you want to learn from experience, keep a trading journal.

Note down all the profits/losses that you make.

Also whenever you lose money try to pinpoint the exact reason why you lost the money. If "bad luck" is your usual reason, you should quit trading.

You can correct your trading mistakes, but you can't change your luck. .
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  #6  
Old 7th February 2012, 09:03 PM
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For starters, who want to experiment with day trading, a terminal may prove costly.

Initially start following a few stocks which shows very high intraday volatility and have liquidity as well. Dish Tv, Ifci, Gvk Power, unitech, rec etc are good trading bets both on upside as well as downside.

Earnings season is best suited for results based trades, where you take a position within minutes of market opening.

Today I traded Titan Industries. I shorted at 203 and covered at 199.75. Titan Q3 results are not that great and will attract lot of selling in 202-204 range.

Following your set of specific stocks inside out will give you the edge over random traders and help you take a quick position and exit with profits.
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  #7  
Old 8th February 2012, 07:18 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prudent_Investor View Post
For starters, who want to experiment with day trading, a terminal may prove costly.
Trading terminals are costly? Really? I have never paid a cent for any of the trading terminals nor ever heard of anyone willing to pay more than Rs.100-200 annually.
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  #8  
Old 8th February 2012, 10:06 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainman View Post
Trading terminals are costly? Really? I have never paid a cent for any of the trading terminals nor ever heard of anyone willing to pay more than Rs.100-200 annually.
Share your broker name and how much volume in money you trade .

I guess prudent is right.

Sir your trading volume might be more than 5 lakh rupee to get those annual rate.
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  #9  
Old 8th February 2012, 10:15 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Prudent_Investor View Post
For starters, who want to experiment with day trading, a terminal may prove costly.
I was referring to the "trading terminals" provided by brokers to their clients and not the ones given by the exchanges to their members.

Quote:
Hi-speed trading terminal on your desktop.
Angel Diet: Online Investment | Stock Trading Application

Quote:
Integrated online trading terminal for Equities, F&O, Commodities, Currency Derivatives and IPOs.
Indiabulls Online Trading | Pioneers in online trading | Dedicated Relationship Manager & Service Branch | Lowest Brokerages | Fast Order Excution

Quote:
IIFL Trader Terminal (TT) Software Download.
India Infoline (IIFL) Trader Terminal (TT) Stock Market Trading Software Download
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  #10  
Old 8th February 2012, 10:29 AM
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Alchemist are those free.

Or you have to pay to the broker?
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  #11  
Old 8th February 2012, 10:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnet View Post
Share your broker name and how much volume in money you trade .

I guess prudent is right.

Sir your trading volume might be more than 5 lakh rupee to get those annual rate.
When I was first thinking of buying a computer in the mid nineties, I asked my father about it. He said we didn't have a room big enough to fit a computer. I thought "How about a table?". The image in his mind of a computer, then, was still of a mainframe with vacuum tubes running along the length of the room. The PC had already arrived almost a decade and a half back.

What do you think a "trading terminal" is?

P.S. Call up Indiabulls Securities (for example) and ask them about PIB. I leave it up to you to negotiate the brokerage.
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  #12  
Old 8th February 2012, 10:45 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnet View Post
Alchemist are those free.

Or you have to pay to the broker?
All are free. I am using Kotak's KEAT Pro X and it is free too.

KEAT Online Trading System | Online Share & Stock Trading Software India
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  #13  
Old 8th February 2012, 11:19 AM
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Tried angel diet it crashed on windows 7. Will try others and will get back.
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  #14  
Old 8th February 2012, 11:30 AM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by magnet View Post
Tried angel diet it crashed on windows 7 .Will try others and will get back.
Just out of curiosity, how old are you and where are you from? You will first need to open an account with the respective brokerage.

I think I have had enough of "social networking" for this month. Catch you later.
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  #15  
Old 8th February 2012, 06:16 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Alchemist View Post
All are free. I am using Kotak's KEAT Pro X and it is free too.

KEAT Online Trading System | Online Share & Stock Trading Software India
I beg to differ with this.

ICICI Charges separate charges for their Trade Racer terminal.

Share Trading | Online Share Trading - ICICI Direct

Also in case of Edelweiss, Xpress and Xtreme Trader terminals are provided free of cost only with higher Advanced Brokerage Plans.
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  #16  
Old 8th February 2012, 08:20 PM
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Rainman View Post
Just out of curiosity, how old are you and where are you from? You will first need to open an account with the respective brokerage.

I think I have had enough of "social networking" for this month. Catch you later.
Catch you later Sir.I am 25+.

I have account with hdfc.But yes i am looking to open a trading account now.Since i m tired carrying bad stocks and sitting on heavy loss.
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